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On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan
- CBS News contributors Samantha Vinograd, a erstwhile apical Homeland Security authoritative successful the Obama administration, and Christopher Krebs, the erstwhile manager of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency,
- CBS News correspondents Major Garrett, Robert Costa, Jan Crawford, Jennifer Jacobs and Scott MacFarlane
Click here to browse afloat transcripts from 2025 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan successful Washington.
And this week connected Face the Nation, arsenic 2025 comes to an end, we volition look up to 2026 and what's connected the skyline for the economy, nationalist security, and more.
2025 is astir down us. It's been a twelvemonth filled with alteration that's turned Washington norms upside down and a twelvemonth filled with quality of large tragedy, but besides moments of existent triumph. What's up for Americans successful 2026 erstwhile it comes to the economy?
We volition crook to Wall Street and the president and CEO of Bank of America, Brian Moynihan, for the industry's economical forecast. We volition look astatine nationalist information threats and challenges from the expanding usage of artificial quality with CBS News contributors Samantha Vinograd and Chris Krebs.
And we volition wrapper up and look to the caller twelvemonth with our CBS News Washington correspondents successful our yearly roundtable.
It's each conscionable up connected Face the Nation.
Good morning, and invited to Face the Nation.
We statesman again with the apical contented this twelvemonth for Americans, the economy.
Earlier this month, we spoke with the caput of Bank of America, Brian Moynihan, astir the authorities of the system arsenic we caput successful to 2026.
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our CBS polling is showing that the – astir Americans asked this question accidental their vacation items are hard to afford.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN (CEO, Bank of America): Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They're pulling backmost due to the fact that incomes are not keeping up with inflation. But it's a precise antithetic communicative erstwhile you look astatine the upper- income brackets.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I cognize you spot information of existent transactions.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are radical doing what they archer america they're doing?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: We not lone spot it successful the aggregate. We besides spot it successful pieces.
And truthful if you look successful the aggregate, the magnitude spent done the Thanksgiving play connected Black Friday and Cyber Monday done each the period of November and the archetypal portion of December, it's – it's up 4, 4.25, 4.5 percent versus past year's November. And truthful it's growing.
And past if you look by terciles, 3 buckets of income levels, it's wide the radical successful the bottommost income level, astatine little income levels are spending astatine a small faster maturation rate, but inactive growing, and successful the mediate and precocious faster.
So, you know, what they're telling you is what they feel. What they're really seeing, is spending is reasonably coagulated – reasonably coagulated heading into the extremity of the year. And it's been benignant of going on similar that each of December.
Now, wages person grown, but ostentation bothers people. Jobs are – you know, the unemployment rate's precise low, but it's been rising. So there's a batch of treatment successful there. At the extremity of day, radical are spending. They person bully recognition quality. They are employed. And we tin spot wages increasing successful – arsenic people's paychecks travel successful astatine a 3 percent clip. So it's a – it's beauteous coagulated close now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that still, though stilted towards the upper-income brackets? Is it that K-shaped system immoderate radical speech about?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes, our squad puts the – looks astatine this.
Yes, it – the maturation complaint quality is higher, but each of – each the third, a third, a third, each 3 thirds are growing. And so…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you deliberation that volition continue?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes, and that's been continuous. And truthful that's the question. They turn astatine antithetic rates, but they're each growing, which each means they're putting much wealth successful the system than they did this clip past year.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why bash you deliberation radical person sentiment that's low, but spending that's higher?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: It's – you perceive astir it. You've talked astir it. It's this question of affordability and prices and trying to fig retired however that – due to the fact that we had a precise – a precise unusual process from '20 done to now.
We had COVID lockdown. Then we had each the stimulus. Then we had precocious inflation. And past we had wages caught up to it. And if you gully a enactment and say, here's wages and here's spending and here's terms growth, it's – they enactment successful sync crossed a agelong play of time, but they went astatine antithetic times.
And truthful they saw the ostentation successful '20 – in, yes, '20 and '23 and '24 that that was connected their minds, and they privation to spot it subsist. And it'll instrumentality a small portion to subsist. But arsenic you spell into '26, having travel done '25, the incremental deed of that would beryllium lower. And adjacent erstwhile the Fed looks astatine it, they deliberation ostentation keeps moving its mode down.
But it's – it's what radical feel. And you can't discount that. And it's also, astatine definite occupation categories and stuff, there's been much dislocation, and that's owed to immoderate of the authorities downsizing and immoderate of the different things going on.
But – but it's – it's not widespread. At 4 – you know, 4.6 percent unemployment is the past fig they published. That's inactive successful the – successful - - our concern careers, is really a precise debased unemployment rate, frankly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, so, successful the past year, commercialized and tariffs, determination were a batch of shocks to the system.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was a large concern. But Bank of America present projects President Trump's strategy is 1 of de-escalation, not escalation. Does that mean you spot this commercialized warfare with China cooling off?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Well, I think, if you spell backmost to wherever we were successful April, determination was a batch of deficiency of knowing astir wherever this would extremity up, and that affected tiny businesses and medium-sized businesses.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There was shock. There was daze connected liberation day.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: There was shock, the size, sheer size, astatine the volume, the dollars, crossed the board, et cetera.
What you person seen now, arsenic clip has moved on, it's benignant of a 15 percent connected 1 side, and past a higher fig based connected radical who won't perpetrate to acquisition from the U.S. oregon won't perpetrate to lowering their non-tariff barriers and things similar that.
And truthful the question, erstwhile I speech to overseas governments and they inquire you the question astir what's this each mean oregon overseas CEOs, you say, look, you got a choice. You tin beryllium present oregon beryllium here. You conscionable person to marque the choice. You're going to beryllium – thrust much towards America, and you volition travel down to 15 percent.
To spell from a 10 percent crossed the committee to 15 percent, for the wide basal of countries, not a immense impact. And that's wherever our squad says it's starting to – it's starting to de-escalate, successful that you're starting to spot the solution of the discussions into 15 percent here, 17 – antithetic numbers.
When you enactment China, China's a antithetic question, due to the fact that of the nationalist information interests, the uncommon world minerals, the magnets, batteries, conscionable A.I., each that stuff. It's a precise antithetic case.
And I deliberation also, betwixt Mexico and China, the USMCA, which has to beryllium redone, is besides a antithetic case. But broadly, successful the world, you tin spot benignant of the extremity constituent here, and present they've conscionable got to – it's got to enactment done the system.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How overmuch of a toll has that taken connected tiny businesses? I recognize B-of-A is the largest tiny concern lender.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: So we're the largest tiny concern lender.
And arsenic you're – if we were sitting present successful the 2nd 4th of this year, it was a large toll. They were precise – due to the fact that rates had gone up, and that costs them much wealth due to the fact that they get connected revolving lines of credit. In different words, they get astatine floating rate, and past the tariffs came successful and caused them, I'm not definite I tin get the goods astatine what terms and however tin I commit?
But arsenic you went done the year, rates came down a small bit. So they're much – their contented close present is, tin I get the labour I request to bash – to bid the contracts, to bash the enactment I'm doing? Because the migration policies haven't settled successful yet, and that's causing radical concern.
It's not that they hold with them oregon are disagree with them. They conscionable request to person the answer, and that's what they're looking for. So, if you deliberation crossed 4 argumentation regimes, tax, trade, tariff, immigration, and past ultimately, deregulation, you person seen a solution of a batch of them, but I deliberation the adjacent 1 for tiny business, what they archer america is labour availability.
How they get determination is, I request radical to bash this work, and I request to beryllium dependable, they're here, truthful springiness maine a acceptable of rules and I volition spell play with them. But I request to beryllium clarified of what the rules are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Fed says enactment successful the lodging assemblage is weak. What bash you spot is down that hesitation?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: There are 2 parts to it.
One is, the complaint operation is higher, truthful it's conscionable slowed down the activity. So, if radical are going to merchantability a location to determination up to a bigger location oregon something, the outgo of indebtedness is going to spell up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: So that's slowing down that activity.
The 2nd is building. And there's lodging measurement shortages each implicit the country, immoderate single-family – you could person single-family, multi – tiny multifloor units, things similar that, oregon adjacent more, bigger multifamily successful large cities. But there's a cosmopolitan lodging shortage, because, for truthful galore years, it's been hard to get lodging permitted.
And truthful the proposal I springiness to anybody is, you're astir apt not going to spot the 10-year rates spell down. Our teammates deliberation the Fed funds complaint gets the debased of 3, and but the 10-year complaint stays betwixt 4 and 4.5, which means the owe complaint won't beryllium a batch antithetic than it is today.
But if you summation supply, you'll support prices flat, and wages volition turn done it. And you're starting to spot prices person flattened retired successful galore places. So you got to physique supply, and you got to get permitting done, and you got to bash that. It's astir apt the solution.
Moving owe rates 50 ground points volition not beryllium a immense change. When you person a clump of radical with 3 percent owe rates, that's not going to beryllium a change. And, by the way, for the American economy, we bash not privation to person an system that has to person that debased a complaint operation again, due to the fact that that means we're not growing, we're not successful, and we're astir apt offsetting a recession.
So we shouldn't beryllium cheering for 3 percent owe rates. It was an anomaly that happened, and present we got to get backmost to normal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you bash perceive the medication speech astir rates coming down arsenic a bully thing.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes. Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You're conscionable saying it's not a simple, speedy fix.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Well, for the lodging market.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Because there's 60 cardinal – there's 130-odd cardinal households successful America. Half of them don't person a mortgage. This is – this full lock-in question…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: … is not adjacent a applicable question. They rent, and truthful you got to bring – rental affordability is simply a question, oregon they ain outright, and that's a antithetic question. They inherit a house, you know, 3rd generation, oregon thing similar that.
So it's a precise analyzable thing. But simplistic – simplistically, if owe rates travel down, radical tin wage more. The world is, if prices travel down, radical person much affordability connected that side. So I deliberation it works itself through.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So fto maine inquire you astir Fannie and Freddie.
Taxpayers took a involvement during the fiscal situation successful these owe lenders. The treasury caput said that they are expected to instrumentality to the nationalist marketplace successful the adjacent year, with the authorities selling a information of that stake.
Does Bank of America person a relation successful that transaction? But – but, for consumers, is that really going to propulsion up the outgo of owning a home?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes, I don't speech astir lawsuit relationships.
But, look, it won't if they support the guarantee. And – and the medication knows that and Secretary Bessent knows it. That warrant helps support that owe complaint down, but besides provides a 30-year mortgage, due to the fact that now, erstwhile you marque a owe indebtedness without a authorities guarantee, for a borrower who whitethorn beryllium connected the qualification levels determination are much advantageous to borrow.
You're making a determination for the adjacent 30 years that the borrower is going to beryllium OK, oregon a batch of years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: So that warrant is captious to the U.S. getting fixed- complaint mortgages and having a batch of owe availability.
And past they've tally the things beauteous liable since the fiscal crisis. Down payments person stayed substantial. So the recognition prime of existent portfolios is beauteous good. And they can't suffer that, due to the fact that that was the crushed – 1 of the reasons wherefore we had the fiscal situation was the debased down payments and tons of owe loans with zero equity successful them.
And arsenic soon arsenic complaint – prices connected houses came down, the full happening exploded, and each America was affected. So I deliberation they're precise mindful of each that. And I deliberation the – but they're captious of the U.S. lodging system. They ever person been.
They're a large company. They're an iconic institution for the U.S., frankly, present to enactment them unneurotic and are moving well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the president has announced that helium wants each these sweeping changes to the Federal Reserve. Chair Powell is acceptable to discontinue from the occupation successful May.
How overmuch does that occupation substance to the consumer? How bash you explicate that?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Well, it's 1 of the absorbing things.
So the president's going to name a caller seat of the Federal Reserve. He's got large candidates. He'll name somebody, and we'll assistance that campaigner get the accusation to beryllium successful, and truthful we'll spot what helium does. But that's his prerogative. You know, that's – helium should bash it.
There's – successful my mind, there's excessively overmuch fascination with the Fed. We're not – we're a state – we're a state that's driven by the backstage sector, by what radical do, and the businesses and the companies, tiny companies and ample companies, medium-sized companies, and entrepreneurs and doctors and lawyer – each these radical thrust our economy.
The thought that we are, like, hanging connected the thread by the Fed moving rates 25 ground points, it seems to maine we've gotten retired of whack. And truthful we got to get – since the fiscal crisis, the Fed had a large relation successful stabilizing the economy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: That's what they're expected to do. That went distant a fig of years ago. It came backmost a small spot successful COVID.
They're a lender of past resort. They're determination to stabilize markets and prices. But, different than that, you shouldn't cognize they exist, rather frankly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you don't interest astir each this, you know, hand- wringing of governmental interference with the Fed erstwhile that caller presumption is filled?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: The marketplace is simply a – volition punish radical if we don't person an autarkic Fed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: And everybody knows that.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: CBS News and The Free Press person secured a concern with Bank of America "For Things That Matter," a bid of municipality halls and debates designed to revive speech connected topics that substance the most.
We volition beryllium backmost successful 1 infinitesimal with much of our interview.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're backmost with much of our interrogation with the president and CEO of Bank of America, Brian Moynihan.
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, backmost successful August, erstwhile we spoke, you talked astir these allegations of banks playing authorities and discriminating against conservatives.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You pushed backmost beauteous hard successful that moment.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, earlier this month, the Trump medication released preliminary findings astir banks, including Bank of America. It's a six-page report.
There's notation to your biology and sustainability-related decisions that were made during the Biden administration. Do you consciousness you person to undo these? Have you undone them?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: A batch of them person been – person been undone oregon made much precise due to the fact that the mentation wasn't really what went on.
So, if you work the Web site, you could say, oh, they're doing this. And the world was, that's not what was going – ne'er was intended. And truthful we don't debank anybody for spiritual oregon governmental reasons. We made the policies clearer, truthful radical could spot it. We invited each the input from the banking regulators and others.
And we'll – we'll look astatine anybody who feels we – judge me, they – radical person thought they were closed for reasons that they couldn't understand. We've looked astatine that probably, you know, due to the fact that customers tin travel to our institution and say, you closed my account. Why? And we tin archer them.
But I deliberation radical are forgetting, the crushed wherefore a batch of this went connected was reputational hazard was an appraisal process that went on, and it was real. And they – and, judge me, you know, radical would work the insubstantial and said, you know, Jane Smith, John Smith, you're doing concern with them. They did thing wrong. You indispensable beryllium – neglect arsenic a company, and, therefore, we're going to constitute you up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That was during the Biden administration, that benignant of societal pressure, you're saying?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Even 20 years ago.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Twenty years ago. OK.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: It's been going connected for a agelong time. It conscionable kept gathering up.
And the 2nd happening is that – that, for AML and KYC issues, we had to adjacent accounts. And truthful the level of a transaction was acceptable successful 1972 astatine $10,000. And you person 2 things. If it goes supra that, you person to study connected it and if it goes aggregate ones adjacent to that. That hasn't been changed since 1972.
That fig would beryllium $80,000 today. So what we thought was worldly then…
MARGARET BRENNAN: In presumption of, like, suspicious transactions.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes, and truthful there's a batch of overwork present that we're trying to – if they get those regulations right, that volition beryllium precise helpful.
So there's benignant of the ESG broadside of it. Those things, I deliberation a batch of america fixed to marque definite they're based connected hazard and existent facts and stuff, due to the fact that this was going connected acold earlier the caller medication came in, frankly, successful states and different places. There is the question of getting the AML, KYC letter, and past the estimation risk, which, to the recognition of the existent national bankers, they've taken that disconnected the table.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because determination truly aren't that galore points of statement these days betwixt Wall Street and the White House.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But this issue, the president himself truly dug into. And helium said that Bank of America declined to unfastened caller accounts for him and his household aft his archetypal word successful office. Do you deliberation you've patched things up? I mean, is – bash you cognize what he's talking about?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: We – I wouldn't speech astir lawsuit relationships with anybody, but we banked everybody.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He said it connected tv astir you.
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: I cognize that. I cognize that. People – if I had a nickel for everything everybody said astir maine connected television, it – I would beryllium rich. So, successful the extremity of day, we slope everybody. We person 125,000 spiritual organizations. We person 70 cardinal consumers.
We person tens of thousands – we are the biggest tiny concern lender successful the country, period, end, stop. You know, and so, you know, the thought that we flip radical out, it's – it's conscionable not true. So I won't get into an idiosyncratic lawsuit and their – and their points of view.
But, look, immoderate of these policies, we were pushed to places that we've been capable to bring backmost to the center, and America ought to consciousness bully astir that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you deliberation the – things are copacetic now?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You person enactment this down you with the White House?
BRIAN MOYNIHAN: Yes.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our afloat interrogation is disposable connected our YouTube channel, our Web site, and our podcast.
And we volition beryllium close backmost with a batch much Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For a look up to the apical nationalist information threats successful 2026, we're joined present by 2 CBS contributors.
Chris Krebs was manager of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency during the archetypal Trump administration, and Sam Vinograd, a erstwhile counterterrorism authoritative astatine the Department of Homeland Security during the Biden administration.
It's bully to person you some here.
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Good to beryllium here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We person heard truthful overmuch successful the past twelvemonth astir A.I., artificial intelligence, successful virtually each assemblage of the concern satellite and nationalist security.
You person said A.I., it's not conscionable an app connected your phone. It's not conscionable a machine chip. It's energy. It's information centers. There are immoderate truly analyzable challenging – challenges here. What are you looking astatine successful the twelvemonth ahead?
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Well, starting precisely there, conscionable the diverseness of sectors that are impacted by A.I., it is an incredibly analyzable planetary worth chain.
It's chips. We person heard a batch astir the Nvidia H200 chips and past competing against Huawei successful China. It is software.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Trying not to merchantability them to China and the statement over…
(CROSSTALK)
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Right. Right. And there's a important hostility successful the nationalist information abstraction on, should we springiness China chips oregon should we deprive them of chips?
And it seems for present that the broadside that wants to springiness China chips and past extract worth and gross from it, that squad has won for now. But, broader than that, there's software. There's infrastructure. There's information centers. There's water. There's thermal management. There is training. There's enactment force.
So it is not conscionable astir the app that manifests connected your phone. It's the entirety of the economy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because it's reshaping truthful galore sectors of the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: It's reshaping the mode virtually each concern operates.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: If you spell speech to CEOs, they're talking astir however they tin beryllium an A.I.-first company. Are they blessed with the results that they're seeing close now? Absolutely not. But they know, 2 years, we're going to look this equivalent of a Cambrian detonation of A.I. capabilities crossed the economy.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: And, Margaret, if I tin conscionable add, it's not conscionable reshaping however businesses operate. It's besides reshaping however governments operate.
If you look astatine A.I., thing is zero sum successful nationalist security. It's not a nett affirmative oregon a nett negative. A.I., and I person seen this firsthand, is changing the mode that investigations are performed. It allows instrumentality enforcement officials to comb done truthful overmuch information and to bash investigations much efficiently.
It is allowing the U.S. subject to usage definite autonomous vehicles and weapons that tin trim civilian risk, if managed appropriately, and much efficaciously prosecute successful warfare fighting. It's changing the mode the quality assemblage is capable to some cod and reappraisal data.
At the aforesaid time, it is opening up a full caller big of threats. A.I. doesn't conscionable level the playing tract for definite actors. It really brings caller players onto the pitch, due to the fact that individuals, non-state actors person entree to comparatively low-cost exertion that makes antithetic kinds of threats much credible and much effective.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You said thing that was a small frightening to me. You said, arsenic exertion gets much advanced, the quality to anonymously wounded radical exponentially increases.
What does that mean connected the homeland information front?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: A.I. gives actors, not conscionable successful the homeland, but virtually each astir the world, to precise credibly unreal to beryllium idiosyncratic else. It is upending the full conception of what individuality is successful today's time and age.
A.I. is allowing atrocious actors to precise authentically and credibly unreal to beryllium idiosyncratic else, some with their voices, with their faces, and past to present threats successful a mode that really resonates. So it's impersonating someone, but past besides utilizing A.I. to fig retired wherever vulnerabilities are successful a strategy and what a people assemblage oregon a people entity is going to respond to.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I privation some of you to measurement successful connected this, but, Chris, we heard conscionable past period the archetypal documented lawsuit of a afloat automated cyberattack by a overseas government. This was the A.I. chatbot Claude.
They said the suspected Chinese hackers had utilized their A.I. to breach astir 30 planetary organizations, conscionable to bash it truly rapidly and efficiently, arsenic I recognize it. So whose occupation is it to support against it? Is it the government's occupation oregon is it a backstage corp to fig retired however to support against each these risks you laid out?
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: Well, I deliberation determination are 2 things successful play close now.
One is, what's the regulatory situation look similar that requires the harmless usage of these platforms? And we person seen a pullback connected the regulatory beforehand from this administration. The Biden medication had an A.I. enforcement bid that required definite notifications and information testings. That's been pulled back.
Instead, we're successful this innovation-first model. And so…
MARGARET BRENNAN: That was airy touch. This is adjacent – this is nary touch, you're saying.
FORMER DIRECTOR CHRISTOPHER KREBS: This is – yes, I – again, this is truly putting the afloat value of the authorities down the U.S. exertion manufacture winning the planetary A.I. race. That is the apical priority.
And truthful what's happening successful the meantime is, you would usually say, OK, the states are going to regulate, but present you person the White House weighing successful saying states cannot modulate successful the A.I. space. And, again, CEOs privation immoderate guidance. They privation governance. So they person to bash it themselves.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, switching gears for a infinitesimal here, we're looking astatine 2026, a immense fig of wide gatherings successful the United States. You person got FIFA, World Cup, the Super Bowl, the nation's 250th anniversary. Are you acrophobic astir homeland information successful the caller year?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: There are ever a batch of threats facing the homeland. What is materially antithetic successful the coming year, successful 2026, is that determination are structural issues that I fearfulness marque america much susceptible to palmy attack.
That includes the information that the United States astir apt for the archetypal clip successful our past is nary longer viewed globally arsenic the person and poster kid for rules-based planetary order. Other actors consciousness similar they don't person to travel the rules if we're not going to. That could present caller threats.
At the aforesaid time, determination has been a degradation successful the systems of authorities that bash place threats and past enactment to forestall them, not conscionable today, but implicit the mean and longer term.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're going to instrumentality a speedy interruption here, travel backmost connected the different broadside of it. More – much things to interest astir successful the caller twelvemonth successful conscionable a minute.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Coming up successful our adjacent half-hour, much of our speech connected nationalist security, positive our yearly CBS News correspondents roundtable.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're backmost with Samantha Vinograd and Chris Krebs. Both are CBS contributors.
Sam, you worked successful Homeland Security nether the Biden administration. And we heard astatine that clip that the medication was conscionable hamstrung unless Congress did thing connected the migration front. This medication took a wholly antithetic approach. I mean let's conscionable look astatine what they did this year. Mass deportation campaign. Significant alteration to ineligible immigration. Border crossings are present astatine the lowest level successful decades. Secured large backing for ICE and CBP. Half a cardinal arrests conducted. They repealed protected presumption for galore immigrants. And present there's a question prohibition oregon restrictions connected astir 39 countries total.
What is the longer-term interaction of these benignant of truly monolithic changes?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Well, to beryllium clear, the Biden medication did instrumentality enactment successful July of 2024 to effort to curtail unlawful immigration. December 2023 we saw astir 250,000 individuals unlawfully crossing our border. By January of 2025, that was down astir 85 percent earlier Biden took bureau – near bureau arsenic a effect of his enforcement order.
We are seeing, and apt volition proceed to see, a systemic dismemberment of lawful migration pathways to the United States. And the medication has shared a assortment of reasons for that. Failure for refugees, for example, to assimilate into the United States. Security concerns and different matters.
But if you conscionable look astatine the numbers, immigrants contiguous relationship for implicit 15 percent of the U.S. labour force. Millions of radical successful this state are immigrants. And if we look astatine the economical interaction of removing that talent, removing those radical from this country, determination volition surely beryllium an economical impact, arsenic good as, I bash believe, a technological and innovative interaction arsenic we look astatine the individuals coming present connected pupil visas, connected H-1B visas, and more. They are nonstop contributors to innovation successful this country. And I fearfulness that we hazard losing retired connected that and getting the equilibrium incorrect betwixt security, economical growth, and innovation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But connected that point, Chris, the medication says you tin financially benignant of put for much H-1B visas. These are the highly skilled workers. Are we losing a competitory borderline due to the fact that of the restrictions?
CHRIS KREBS: I deliberation this has been successful play for respective years, successful fact. Going backmost adjacent respective administrations. What the Chinese, for instance, person figured retired is that if they enactment their ain superior into their Silicon Valley equivalent, they tin clasp precocious Chinese endowment that has typically gone to the U.S. Gone to assemblage successful the U.S. and past stayed present due to the fact that our task superior abstraction is booming. The Chinese person figured it out.
And what we're seeing now, backmost to the risks piece, is that the Chinese are utilizing their fiscal resources to propulsion highly advanced, highly capableness engineers retired of the U.S. and European workforce, bringing them back, and past transcript overmuch of the exertion that's giving america the edge.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, determination is simply a transportation here, backmost to migration argumentation changes, too?
CHRIS KREBS: Absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sam, I privation to inquire you astir different large lawsuit that's coming, the midterm races. We person seen a batch of governmental unit oregon interest astir governmental unit successful months past. The assassination of Charlie Kirk, the execution of a Minnesota lawmaker and her husband. We saw Governor Shapiro's Pennsylvania residence burnt. These are conscionable immoderate of the high-profile things. There's much that's happened. What bash you anticipate? Should we beryllium fearful of a governmental situation and elections?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Politically motivated unit is astir apt the menace that keeps maine up the astir astatine night, peculiarly arsenic we look astatine the twelvemonth ahead. Undoubtedly, the United States is viewed arsenic 1 of the largest sources of struggle and homes of struggle successful the satellite today, which is simply a seismic alteration if you deliberation astir it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Heading into the midterms and, of course, looking up to the presidential, we person already seen coercion becoming a instrumentality of prime successful the homeland to settee some idiosyncratic grievances and governmental vendettas. The reasons for that are, of course, enhanced rhetoric, but also, frankly, enhanced entree to like-minded individuals, enhanced entree to tactics and techniques online. The quality to find retired wherever your people is going to beryllium and when, and more. The rhetoric needs to beryllium calmed down.
But determination besides needs to beryllium the close investments successful captious infrastructure protection, and in, appropriately, identifying overseas power to effort to stoke up governmental unit and different threats.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And determination person been existent cutbacks successful the things you conscionable laid retired arsenic indispensable tools successful presumption of the FBI, their task unit connected overseas power operations.
Chris, the bureau you utilized to enactment for, CISA, it's seen, not conscionable fund cuts, but conscionable unfastened jobs here.
CHRIS KREBS: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is going on? Why not physique up extortion going into an situation similar this?
CHRIS KREBS: It's conscionable not a precedence close present for this administration. I deliberation they judge that determination were missteps successful the past connected with the Biden administration, and adjacent the archetypal Trump medication did connected identifying, encountering accusation operations, peculiarly arsenic they subordinate to elections.
But we cognize that these threats are real. We cognize these risks are real. And we besides cognize that they're multiplying. Sam talked earlier astir the exponential detonation of capabilities successful the hands of atrocious actors and the detonation of atrocious actors themselves due to the fact that of tools similar A.I.
When I deliberation astir the '26 midterms, we are going to beryllium 2 to 3 generations beyond what the existent A.I. exemplary capabilities are. So, they're lone going to beryllium much sophisticated, much advanced, much capabilities successful the hands of those overseas and home that privation to disrupt our quality to take who represents america successful Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you precise much, both, for sharing your expertise with us.
CHRIS KREBS: Thank you.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll beryllium close back.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: What's up successful 2026? It's clip to cheque successful with immoderate of our exhausted Washington bushed reporters, including main Washington analogous Major Garrett, who besides hosts "The Takeout," connected our 24/7 integer network, main Washington expert Robert Costa, justness analogous Scott MacFarlane, main ineligible analogous Jan Crawford, and elder White House newsman Jennifer Jacobs.
It's large to person you each here.
MAJOR GARRETT: Exhausted but besides energized. You know, we've got to support the vigor going.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, support the java coming, Major. We're going to request it for the twelvemonth ahead.
But we looked astatine the polling, Costa. I privation to get your instrumentality connected this. Because a bulk of Americans disapprove of the president's signature argumentation issue, immigration. It came successful astatine 54 percent. His support of his handling of the economy, which is his different signature contented helium was elected on, is present astatine 37 percent according to our latest CBS poll.
Is the president frustrated with the cognition of his archetypal year?
ROBERT COSTA: Margaret, the Democrats are looking astatine those numbers, and that's wherefore they're making their full statement to the state of affordability. They spot existent vulnerability for this medication connected the economy. But wrong the White House, I would accidental the operation is not affordability, it's self-confidence.
This president, down the scenes, is telling his advisers to enactment steady, to not person alarm. There is vexation astir property coverage. There's vexation astir however Republicans successful Congress look to beryllium truthful disquieted up of the midterm. Some headed for the exits with retirement.
The president, again and again successful backstage conversations with his apical officials, is insistent that the commercialized argumentation is working. He's not going to propulsion disconnected – propulsion backmost connected tariffs astatine all. He believes helium tin person a caller commencement with a caller Fed president coming successful in 2026. And so, it's President Trump astatine the center, driving this speech and staving disconnected immoderate concern.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jennifer, what bash your sources archer you astir however the president's going to tackle specifically immoderate of these economical issues?
JENNIFER JACOBS: Housing costs are truly eating into wages. And the president has been shown polling that showed this is simply a truly blistery contented for some Democratic voters and Republican voters alike. The president has astir a twelve proposals earlier him that person each sorts of ideas of however to little owe costs, alteration rental costs. They're reasoning astir creating a caller savings relationship that would beryllium akin to the 529 assemblage savings account, but this would beryllium for first-time location buyers. They're talking astir national lands, opening up national lands for caller lodging construction. He has scheduled meetings down successful Florida portion he's determination for Christmas interruption to speech to his advisers astir this. I'm told that the president wants the lodging outgo contented to beryllium the precise archetypal large argumentation determination that helium launches successful the caller year, sometime January oregon February.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Focusing successful connected that biggest contributor to inflation, structure costs.
JENNIFER JACOBS: Exactly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jan, tariffs are astatine the precise bosom of the president's agenda. And we cognize the tribunal is expected to determine soon connected the legality connected a definite acceptable of the president's tariffs that helium justified by citing fentanyl. Should the White Gouse beryllium truthful assured that they're going to win?
JAN CRAWFORD: I surely didn't get that content from the argument. I mean the main justice, Justice Gorsuch, coagulated conservatives were asking questions, truly skeptical of the administration's arguments connected tariffs. It was benignant of a communicative of 2 arguments, though, due to the fact that arsenic that lawsuit benignant of progressed, past they started asking questions skeptical of the different side.
So, I mean, I deliberation that anyone that comes retired and similar confidently predicts however the court's going to regularisation successful this lawsuit is conscionable wishful thinking. I mean it could beryllium precise close. I could spot a 5-4 ruling, Trump losing. I could spot a 6-3 decision, perhaps, Trump wins.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott, connected the ineligible front, the president has gone aft immoderate perceived enemies successful things similar enforcement orders, announced, you know, stripping distant of information clearances, adjacent of radical who don't adjacent presently person one, but he's made his point. But his effort to prosecute opponents hasn't been rather arsenic simple. What are you seeing?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: He campaigned a twelvemonth agone arguing he'd extremity the weaponization of the Department of Justice against governmental enemies. And what did we spot successful 2025? An atrocious batch of investigations and transgression cases against his governmental critics. We saw these flailing attempts to complaint James Comey and Letitia James, the New York lawyer general. Those cases were dismissed. And doubly successful the past fewer weeks expansive juries person said nary to efforts to effort to resuscitate the lawsuit against Letitia James. Grand juries seldom accidental nary to prosecutors. That was a profound thing.
And I deliberation much fundamentally, Margaret, it's not conscionable the cases oregon the investigations oregon the calls. It's the changes wrong of the Department of Justice. They person purged retired prosecutors who handled cases Trump doesn't like, bringing successful perchance caller voices that critics would accidental are poised to weaponize against critics.
MAJOR GARRETT: And a tacit medication from the White House main of unit that determination is simply a retribution run successful the nonfiction written by "Vanity Fair" Chris Whipple. Susie Wiles said, yes, she was going to effort to enactment a clip bounds connected that, unsuccessfully, but acknowledging what Scott conscionable said is simply a existent thing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, connected this question, though, of limits to authority, Major, we've seen immoderate limits to legislature power, oregon astatine slightest willingness to exert its authority. Do you deliberation it's going to alteration this year?
MAJOR GARRETT: The governmental contours of the Congress going into 2026 are going to truly travel done however anxious are Republicans astir their ain quality to get re-election. And bash they person to make immoderate noticeable quality betwixt themselves and the president and the Trump medication Through each 2025 the reply to that was, no, we're good, we're staying successful with Trump. But if the atmosphere, which presently exists, starring to immoderate retirements, continues to worsen, you volition spot much legislature pushback. Does it manifold successful a mode that stops Trump and the medication cold? No, but it complicates things. And if anyone leaves the cabinet, the thought of who the nominee is and what their Senate confirmation prospects are volition beryllium filtered done this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Costa, connected that point, bash you spot departures from the furniture happening?
ROBERT COSTA: It's precise possible, though President Trump is not 1 to conscionable marque a determination instantly due to the fact that there's a flurry of news, antagonistic news, astir 1 of his furniture members. We spot helium often takes his clip to marque immoderate of the decisions, and helium doesn't similar to beryllium pressured to get escaped of anybody.
But determination are truthful galore radical successful the alleged MAGA beingness who wants these slots. And they are capable to get entree to this president. A batch of these furniture officials I've spoken to privately, and their apical aides, accidental they're going to effort to marque it done the midterm elections and past leave. But if the president is feeling unit to marque immoderate benignant of important alteration up of the midterms, I wouldn't regularisation thing retired based connected my reporting.
JENNIFER JACOBS: I tin archer you, Margaret, this is not furniture members, but this – successful the West Wing, that main battalion of interior ellipse advisers is going to enactment intact. And that includes Susie Wiles and Stephen Miller and Karoline Leavitt, connected the mode down, that halfway radical of people. They're not going anywhere. I deliberation we volition spot immoderate elder advisers successful the West Wing leave. Just support successful caput that determination are immoderate advisers that person young children. So, they mightiness beryllium leaving for household reasons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jan, determination is simply a cognition that the Supreme Court has shown constricted absorption to the president's efforts to grow the powers of the executive. Do you deliberation that's fair? And bash you deliberation connected that large lawsuit that's coming with birthright citizenship, that they volition find successful his favor?
JAN CRAWFORD: I deliberation determination is the cognition due to the fact that of the mode the tribunal has handled immoderate of these exigency requests from the Trump medication to measurement successful to these cases and enactment little tribunal rulings connected clasp portion the litigation plays out. So, that would fto the policies instrumentality effect. And the Trump medication has had tremendous success, I mean good implicit 20 specified requests person been granted to fto immoderate of these policies spell into effect, whether it's connected deportations, connected migration stops, wide firings. But those are temporary, interim orders. And the medication has been precise strategical and lone appealing these adverse rulings from courts beneath that it thinks it tin win. Again, these are conscionable interim orders. Once we bash get to the merits, I don't deliberation Trump's going to triumph each these cases. And I surely don't deliberation he's going to triumph the birthright citizenship case.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don't?
JAN CRAWFORD: No, perfectly not. He whitethorn not triumph the tariff's case. Right present it's looking large for Trump successful the Supreme Court, but it whitethorn look precise antithetic travel June erstwhile we person benignant of gotten done immoderate of these big, landmark rulings.
MAJOR GARRETT: And, Jan's bushed is going to beryllium astatine the halfway of the 2026 politics, tariffs, Voting Rights Act, and birthright citizenship. All volition person massive, governmental consequences.
JAN CRAWFORD: Oh, and truthful galore societal contented cases arsenic well. Transgender information successful girl's sports. We've got 2 immense weapon rights cases. This is simply a highly consequential word for the court.
And, you know, it's going to beryllium successful conflict, I think, with President Trump by the extremity of the word due to the fact that he's not going to similar each these rulings.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we'll beryllium close backmost with much from our panel.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're backmost with our panel.
Predictions for 2026.
Robert Costa.
ROBERT COSTA: My motto arsenic a newsman is presume nothing. And we're precise aboriginal successful the 2028 statesmanlike rhythm and discussion. Governor Newsom of California, Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Governor Pritzker of Illinois, the database goes on. But my prediction is, successful 2026, we're going to spot immoderate names we're not discussing astatine each commencement to look arsenic imaginable contenders for the Democrats successful 2028. Some celebrities mightiness travel into the mix. And 1 sanction I would venture, based connected immoderate caller reporting, Stephen A. Smith, the sports personality, is talking to radical successful the Democratic Party astir whether helium has a future. Whether helium runs oregon not, TBD. But thing to watch, personage authorities successful the property of Trump connected some sides.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jan Crawford.
JAN CRAWFORD: I'm going to revisit a prediction I made past twelvemonth erstwhile I benignant of confidently said that Justice Alito was astir apt going to discontinue and springiness President Trump his 4th information to the Supreme Court. Sources adjacent to Justice Alito accidental helium has not made up his mind. He, successful galore ways, is excessively young to retire. He's 75 years old. But past there's the interest that he's excessively aged not too, due to the fact that if helium cares astir his legacy, and helium is that intelligence person of the blimpish wing, if helium cares astir his bequest with a Republican successful the White House oregon a Republican- controlled Senate, this twelvemonth would beryllium the champion clip for him to retire.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: I deliberation Americans volition statesman oregon progressively consciousness the effects of DOGE. There's an atrocious batch of radical that mislaid their jobs successful the past 12 months. A batch of long-time vocation civilian servants who were bully astatine delivering products for the American citizens. In my world, the Department of Justice, determination person been 5,000 people. That can't assistance but dilatory down prosecutions, investigations, and doing close by American people. And that's existent crossed the committee successful Washington.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jennifer.
JENNIFER JACOBS: Fraud investigations. I deliberation you're going to spot this medication truly excavation successful deeper to effort to find grounds that proves fraud successful assorted authorities programs. People cheating the system, trying to fleece taxpayers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Major.
MAJOR GARRETT: So, I'm going to beryllium the glue for this process due to the fact that we person predictions and underreported.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We get –
MAJOR GARRETT: Mine merge together.
So, prediction is, information centers and A.I. enlargement volition beryllium an underappreciated but potent governmental contented successful 2026. Eight enforcement ordered signed by President Trump related to artificial quality conscionable down tariffs and immigration. He has made himself the A.I. president. Yet, fto maine springiness you immoderate names of state, Indiana, Arizona, Missouri, Texas, each successful 1 mode oregon another, connected the Republican side, are up successful arms astir either A.I. regulation, deficiency thereof, oregon information centers and their implications. Sixty percent successful our astir caller poll, astir 60 percent of Americans judge artificial quality volition not summation jobs but instrumentality jobs away. And 44 percent successful our astir caller canvass privation much regularisation of A.I. than less. This is simply a wedge contented that Democrats person identified due to the fact that it is not cohered connected the MAGA side. The president has already enactment down his chips connected it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Underreported . What did you privation to study that you couldn't?
JENNIFER JACOBS: I love, to Scott's point, I'm going to physique connected it Elon Musk and the DOGE team.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
JENNIFER JACOBS: They promised to chopped the national workforce. We're astatine the extremity of the year. So, what is the tally for the year? It is 271,000 workers. That's according to the latest jobs study that showed however galore workers the national authorities shed. So, conscionable to enactment that into perspective, that's astir the colonisation of Madison, Wisconsin. So, ideate if each azygous idiosyncratic successful Madison, Wisconsin, were to suffer their job, either ousted oregon they permission their job.
So, the bottommost enactment connected DOGE is that they did not win successful cutting wide authorities spending, but they did fulfill their ngo to trim the national headcount by astir astir 10 percent. And I deliberation it's going to beryllium important to way those workers and to spot wherever they extremity up, what their fates are, due to the fact that they are not being scooped up successful the backstage sector, astatine slightest not yet.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: There was immoderate attention, but not the requisite attraction to the thermonuclear usage of pardons successful 2025. Blanket pardons, household pardons, preemptive pardons. Is the adjacent idiosyncratic going to bring it backmost to what we've enjoyed implicit the past mates centuries, the accepted controversies astir pardons?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jan, nether reported?
JAN CRAWFORD: You know, determination is simply a communicative that the Supreme Court is corrupt. I mean we saw that look successful the aftermath of the Dobbs determination that overturned Roe versus Wade. And present we spot it, that they're successful the vessel for Trump. Not lone is that communicative overreported, it is patently false, and it is unsafe for the instauration and the public's religion and assurance successful the regularisation of law. This is simply a blimpish Supreme Court. It has been a blimpish Supreme Court for 20 years. People tin disagree and bash disagree with their opinions, but it's profoundly incorrect to telephone it – oregon accidental corruption wherever there, successful fact, is none.
What's underreported is immoderate knowing of what this court's been doing for the past 20 years. Its views of its role, vis-a-vis the different branches. How it sees the law. How it's trying, successful its focus, to reconstruct immoderate benignant of accountability and our law structure.
Again, this is simply a tribunal that is functional. It is consistent. They are 9 justices. They don't needfully spot the Constitution the aforesaid mode by immoderate means oregon however to construe national law. There's a conflict implicit the due mode to construe the Constitution. But that is arsenic it should be. And I deliberation arsenic we attack our 250th day of this country, it's important to deliberation astir the tribunal and their regularisation of instrumentality arsenic the justices are doing, particularly if we anticipation to support ideology intact.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That's a large statement, Jan, if we anticipation to support ideology intact. My goodness.
JAN CRAWFORD: If we mislaid – if the nationalist loses assurance successful the regularisation of law, I don't cognize what that means for democracy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Yes.
JAN CRAWFORD: And that's wherefore I deliberation immoderate of the rhetoric astir corruption is so, truthful profoundly irresponsible.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: And it causes threats.
JAN CRAWFORD: Oh, yes. Which, again, I mean the justices are nether tremendous, and national judges arsenic well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it's each institutions, including for (ph) the state.
Bob Costa, your underreported?
ROBERT COSTA: Just briefly. One of the astir striking stories of the twelvemonth politically, Zohran Mamdani. Young –
MARGARET BRENNAN: He's underreported?
ROBERT COSTA: No, no. Let maine – fto maine marque my point. One of the astir striking stories was Mamdani's victory. The large question a batch of radical person is, well, however does this happen? How does this young, Democratic socialist triumph successful New York City? In my view, the astir underreported communicative of the twelvemonth is however idiosyncratic laid the instauration for Zohran Mamdani. Someone adjacent 50 years older, Senator Bernie Sanders, independent, Democratic socialist of Vermont, had what's called a "Fight Oligarchy Tour" earlier successful 2025, drafting thousands of radical successful reddish states and bluish states. Sanders enabled Mamdani, and others similar him, to commencement to summation traction for Democratic socialism wrong of the Democratic conception successful this state successful 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Interesting, indeed.
Thanks to each of you.
MAJOR GARRETT: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And bully luck to america each successful 2026.
We'll beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks for watching. We privation to privation each our spectator a precise Happy New Year. For "FACE THE NATION," I'm Margaret Brennan. We'll spot you successful 2026.
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